Banking on KC – Kerri Frazier of Relative Lighting
Listen Now, or read the transcript below:
Kelly Scanlon:
Welcome to Banking on KC. I'm your host, Kelly Scanlon. Thank you for joining us. With us on this episode is Kerri Frazier, a serial entrepreneur whose most recent venture is Relative Lighting, a concierge experience in lighting, sourcing and design. Welcome, Kerri.
Kerri Frazier:
Thank you, Kelly. It's good to be here.
Kelly Scanlon:
You've spent several years in full service design, then you decided to focus on lighting and just concentrate completely on that. I've read somewhere where you said that you created the company from a pure desire to light up the world. So what opportunity did you see that's led you down this more focused path?
Kerri Frazier:
I intuitively began to feel as I was working with people doing full service design, that people were curious and they were craving more depth, more understanding about the technicalities of lighting and how lighting plans lay out. Just a deep, deep desire to understand lighting design at a level that wasn't being offered by the market, paired with the fact that I love lighting. And so I started just following that curiosity of, I wonder if there's something more here. I wonder if there's a business bottle that could be built around helping people, guiding people, supporting people through an entire experience, end to end in lighting that looks very different from anything that exists today. And so I listened to myself and started trying some ideas, and that's really how this entire thing has evolved.
Kelly Scanlon:
So how long from the time that you decided you were going to go down this path to... I know you incorporated in May 2020, right in the heart of the pandemic, we were all in isolation. But seriously though, it was a great time in some respects because a lot of people were taking that time to upgrade their homes, to rethink their business offices. They were taking that time to make these kinds of changes, but how long did it take you from concept to, "We're in business, let's go all in on this?"
Kerri Frazier:
I think a little bit non-traditionally is how I approached it. Towards the end of my full service interior design days, I began to just test this model. And so I was still officially operating as Frazier Interiors, but testing out what's my message? If I did pivot over to lighting only, how could I do this? How could I collaborate with my peers? And so the time it took from the concept until I relaunched myself under the relative lighting brand was a couple of years.
Kelly Scanlon:
But what great feedback you had. So you were able to use your existing clients as a test market. Who do you serve? Is it a commercial market? Is it a residential market? All the above?
Kerri Frazier:
Primarily residential right now. It's not to say that we can't do commercial projects, but our primary client is builders, designers and homeowners. So anybody that needs lighting in their space, we just so far have tended to draw more residential projects than commercial. Yeah, really, it's anybody that craves and desires quality in not only the product but the experience. People that are curious to understand more details, more layers, and really need that level of service. That's our customer.
Kelly Scanlon:
What is your footprint? How wide of a geographic area do you serve?
Kerri Frazier:
Yeah, we are all across the United States.
Kelly Scanlon:
Okay. In two years time. You've said before though that in spite of knowing that you could build a business around just lighting, that you knew that you were going to need to layer, add in layers in order to scale and grow. So what do you mean by that and what are those layers?
Kerri Frazier:
What are those layers? And to me, the layers are really where the rubber meets the road. And that's the magic, right? You have this great idea. A lot of people have great ideas, but the execution and building out those layers in a way that are meaningful to the business and allow you to really scale the business gracefully on top of those layers are everything. Some of the layers are IT platform. So I come from an IT background before full service interior design, I was at Cerner. I sold healthcare software, studied MIS in college, and so I have a deep respect and passion for IT as well as design. So there's this nice marriage of leveraging and leaning into IT and what it can do to help change an industry.
And so I knew I needed to build some software and I really wanted to focus on making sure it was tooled to be a project management software, not order management.
Kelly Scanlon:
So tell us what you see as the difference between project management and order management?
Kerri Frazier:
So many systems are built to take an order and then fulfill the order, communicate about that order, especially busy designers and builders, they're ordering many times against a single project. Today it might be they're ordering for one level of the home. Tomorrow it might be a different level of the home. Next week it might be the architectural lighting or the linear under cabinet lighting, and the questions that they return back to me are not about a specific order. They're about, "When can I hire the electrician to come on site? Where is everything holistically?"
And so I knew I needed to because I didn't have this in my full service experience, was who can I work with that has site lines to the project? And so I basically set out to build the IT system that I wish I would've had when I had a full service interior design business. And so I knew I needed IT. Another layer was looping in the architectural lighting. So because I started out of the gate doing decorative lighting, curation and design, and that's where my initial passion was, I also became very aware of the fact that architectural lighting, and that's the layer of lighting that is recessed, linear or under cabinet lighting. The lighting that matters immensely.
It's equally important, but it's really intended not to be seen. It allows you to really get creative with how you paint a space with lighting. And I knew I needed to figure out, it's an entirely separate industry. Architectural lighting and decorative lighting come from very different industries with different models, different processes, different sets of players and competitors. I had to marry it all together into a single brand, and so that is done. We're doing that now. We're doing architectural and decorative and really tooling that together into a single experience for our clients.
Another component that I continue to work on is logistics management. Being across the country locally here in Kansas City, we have a warehouse, across the country we have a network of third party logistics companies that we work with because project management is such a key piece of our brand and our business. We need to make sure we have sight lines to when we're moving product from the manufacturer to a local receiver, and then how is it getting from that local receiver to the end delivery or installation address? And so there are a lot of handoffs and there's a lot of communication points and just needing to make sure that not only were the logistics set up, but there was a nice clean and clear way to communicate those.
Kelly Scanlon:
A lot of people might think of design and you think of somebody who goes into a space and says, "Oh," depending on what the person wants to achieve with the space, you might suggest this or that and point them to a few things and that's the end of it. You have, as you say, several different layers and it really amazes me. People also tend to, and myself included, tend to think of design as something that it's simply creative. And so you're using your right brain, and I love the way that technology and design, the way you're marrying the two. You're using them both in order to create, from what I've seen on your website, very beautiful spaces.
Kerri Frazier:
Oh, thank you. It's really fun. I see technology equally as creative as overall design just because that is my background. And so we're playing in that space. How can we leverage technology to do things that computers can do really, really, really well, and that we don't need to have team members sitting down and stewing over how to drop in a tracking number or how to let a client know something has shipped? When a computer can do that for us, if we just take the time to write the correct script and think through all the logic and rules.
So it's really fun to kind of imagine what we can do. We're hard at work on the next layer in our project management software, we're about to turn on our client lounge where clients can log in and have site lines to all of their projects and invite others in to collaborate. And I would even say the biggest layer for me has been my team.
Kelly Scanlon:
How do you go about compiling a team that first of all, you're all across the country and I know that personal relationships are very important to you?
Kerri Frazier:
Well, I intentionally found people that have deep relationships across the country. As I was a lone soldier, knowing I needed to surround myself with people that were veterans in this industry that had experience and knowledge and deep influential relationships, I went and handpicked those people and we have built a solid core team of women. We're all women based here in Kansas City. As we get this process really well-defined, we will then go turn on micro teams across the country. I think having feet on the ground, a team of two or three people in some key cities could be very valuable, but so much of it we can do remote, looking at blueprints and CAD drawings and taking in images from a space or renderings.
And so a lot of what we do is remote work, and with Zoom we can meet our clients what feels like face-to-face. It has been wonderful to see the business scale across the country so quickly and cultivate relationships online using platforms like Instagram and tools like Zoom.
Kelly Scanlon:
You mentioned that you hire people who have deep relationships and that you know they can create deep relationships. Do you depend on anything else besides asking somebody what relationships do you have or based on your own relationship with them?
Kerri Frazier:
That's a really good question. Obviously, intuition plays a big part in knowing if somebody's the right fit to work with your team. I usually will invite people in casually to meet the other team members and just see how the energy in the room. So there's another tool called human design that we look at and lean into as we are evaluating what makes a person whole and how are they best fit to integrate with the world around them? And there are different profiles, different types, and we open up very honest and authentic conversations with anybody, whether we're looking to hire them or even just be friends and have a partnership.
So I would say kind of a unique aspect, and I don't know if that's one that a lot of other companies consider or think about. It's not just about a skillset. It is about a skillset, but it's about more than that. Who is this person as a whole person? What are their unique gifts? How do they interact with others and what can they bring to this team of people?
Kelly Scanlon:
You have called lighting the secret sauce of a space and mood. It creates ambience. It even impacts the functionality of a room, and it's a very intimate kind of thing really because of all those things. But yet so many people, especially... I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess when you're working directly with some homeowners, not all, but some homeowners that they don't think beyond the actual lighting fixture. If you were sitting in front of a customer, you were giving them a little mini education on what to think about, what would you tell them to consider?
Kerri Frazier:
It would be to really understand and appreciate that there are many layers of lighting that would be considered in order to paint a space, and that everybody's going to feel... wants to feel different in their spaces. Just because it's a kitchen doesn't mean everybody wants to feel the same way in their kitchen. So things to consider would be color temperatures, overall lumen outputs. What type of decorative fixtures are we hanging in the space and how do we supplement the light that's coming from those fixtures? And with architectural, we can do really interesting things like if we have metal shades hanging above an island, well, the light's not going to permeate out of the side of a metal shade. So we'll lean hard into architectural lighting in those spaces to make sure we have appropriate task light.
Another example would be we're working on a project now with these really large, beautiful Ralph Lauren crystal chandeliers, and we will take architectural lighting in the ceiling and intentionally point those at the chandelier, not intended to light the floor below. They're intended to kick off of the crystal and the facets on the chandelier. So there are just a lot of design tricks that can be done when we engage people that are professionals in this space.
Kelly Scanlon:
I think that is fascinating, the statement that you made about it may be the same room, but the lighting can make the room look different just like if you painted it a different color or put a different kind of door on it. And I don't think most people, again, myself included, think about lighting that way. It's fascinating.
Kerri Frazier:
They just feel a certain way like, "I want to feel the way I felt in that restaurant. I want to feel the way I felt in that hotel room." And really, it's about leaning into contrast and where are we washing walls? Where are we pointing light at artwork? Because your eye goes naturally toward the brightest point in a space. And so if every space is just flooded with light, that's fine if the intention is to have tasks done in that space. But not every space, especially residential spaces are intended to be all task all the time.
Kelly Scanlon:
When you first started and you introduced this really innovative concept where you are marrying the technology and the creativity, were there challenges? You're making it sound so easy, and I always admire entrepreneurs who make it sound easy because I know that whatever we see swimming above the water there looking all nice and elegant, there's something underneath-
Kerri Frazier:
Yes, paddling hard.
Kelly Scanlon:
Paddling hard. Yes.
Kerri Frazier:
I believe so wholeheartedly in this gap in the market that I have just gone for it and I have blinders on, and I really don't invite other people's opinions. I'm not asking. I'm more saying, "This is what we do, this is what we are," and it's sticking and it's resonating. And if there are people that don't see value in it or believe in it, then they're probably somewhere in the rear view mirror. The biggest challenge, and I sort of alluded to it when I was talking about the layers, my biggest challenge in the beginning continues to be my biggest challenge today, and that is the spot where my brand and my business loses control over the process, and that is during logistics.
So from the time the product leaves the manufacturer until it arrives on site where it needs to go, it is completely out of my control. And the things that occur and happen in that time when they're in the hands of a delivery driver or somebody else that moves the product, any logistics company ends up being my problem because I have to fix whatever gets broken and find whatever gets lost. So those issues and challenges continue to be the most challenging and maddening, and that's where we will begin to put more and more of our focus around how can we leverage IT to start to mitigate some of this? We can't mitigate it all. We live in a physical world, but certainly, there's got to be a better way to integrate other software platforms into our current system or some way to start really mitigating some of the risks.
Kelly Scanlon:
So maybe being able to track where everything is at a certain point, and so if something does go wrong, you can go right back and figure out where it happened and get your arms around it a lot more quickly.
Kerri Frazier:
Yes, get answers without 17 phone calls and, "Where is it?" And there are other industries leveraging this type of technology, and so we are getting very curious about, okay, maybe there's a way we can play in a more technical forward way with how we're moving product from point A to point B.
Kelly Scanlon:
It makes me wonder, did you have mentors earlier on in your career?
Kerri Frazier:
I've had a lot of mentors. Yeah, you mentioned that I worked for Cerner. I sold for Cerner and was recruited into their sales training process. And so early in my career, my early 20s, I had layers of mentors and forever grateful for those people. I would also say that generally speaking, I'm a pretty confident person. Just when I see something I want and I know what I like, I'm very driven to get it.
Kelly Scanlon:
What advice do you have for other business owners out there listening who may be contemplating the same thing you were a few years ago? It's like, "I've got this business and it's fairly broad, but if I really focus on where I think I want to go and really streamline, I'm going to be cutting a lot of revenue out from these other avenues that I currently served." And so they're hesitated. They haven't pulled the trigger on that. What advice would you give business owners who are contemplating a move like that about whether it's something maybe they should or shouldn't do? Just what should they consider?
Kerri Frazier:
Always advise anybody, business owner or otherwise to listen to your intuition. You know best and your intuition is your guide. And if you're listening to it and you're making sure that you're not making decisions out of fear, but you're making decisions because your intuition is guiding you and leading you, and you're trusting it and leaning into it, then there's no wrong answer. More specifically, once you're listening to your intuition and you're like, "Okay, I really, really want to do this thing," I would say starting with the brand is really, really important. I did that. Once I had the model sort of tested and I knew there was something sticking, I went immediately to a branding agency and said, "We need to pick the perfect name and we need language, and we need an entire brand built around this thing because brands resonate with people and they are a language in and of themselves." And so early on, putting that investment forward into a brand is vital.
Kelly Scanlon:
Thank you so much for being here today to share your story, to share some of your entrepreneurial insights. They're all very valuable. Thank you so much and good luck.
Kerri Frazier:
Great. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Joe Close:
This is Joe Close, President of Country Club Bank. Thank you to Kerri Frazier for being our guest on this episode of Banking on KC. It takes a huge leap of faith to follow an entrepreneurial dream. It takes even more courage to close a successful business and to start a new one with a tighter focus, but Kerri saw that by narrowing, she could actually expand and change an industry. Her story is a powerful reminder to entrepreneurs that success can blind us to following the status quo when there is even more opportunity if we stop to read the market for gaps.
Country Club Bank is always interested in talking with entrepreneurs about company vision and the changes in direction you may be contemplating. Give us a call. We'll be glad to visit with you. Thanks for tuning in this week. We're banking on you Kansas City. Country Club Bank, member FDIC.